size different?

[mukherjeeprem]

I've been using downloader pro for years with no problems.
I recently upgraded to the newest version since it will also recognize video files (which is irrelevant to this question)

After the upgrade, when I download a card, it shows that hundreds of files had errors due to "size different"
However, when I go to the download directory, everything seems to be be there. The problem is that not only is it showing me those error messages, but breezebrowser is not ridiculously slow when I tab from one image to the next. It used to be nearly instantaneous, now it takes about 1-1.5 seconds which is way too slow to go through thousands of photos.

I'm shooting Raw+Small Jpeg and using {c}-{r}-{M} for my filename.
Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong, why I'm getting that error and why breezebrowser is so slow with the images?

I can only image that the there is a problem related to the jpeg that is embedded in the raw file and that is somehow conflicting with the separate jpeg file but I don't know how to make that go away.

Thanks in advance!!

[mukherjeeprem]

I also noticed that in the folder of images, there is now an xmp file next to each image. I'm not sure if that was created by the new downloader pro or the new breeze browser pro. but, i have no idea what that is and wonder if that is assisting in the MAJOR slowdown in performance.

[DavidB]

After the upgrade, when I download a card, it shows that hundreds of files had errors due to "size different". However, when I go to the download directory, everything seems to be be there. I'm shooting Raw+Small Jpeg and using {c}-{r}-{M} for my filename. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong, why I'm getting that error and why breezebrowser is so slow with the images?
The following quotation from DL Pro Help explains the 'size different' error message:


This usually indicates that a file of the same name has already been downloaded to your PC and Downloader Pro can't download the file on the memory card without overwriting the one on your PC ... The usual reason for this is your camera is set to reset the file numbering each time an empty memory card is used.
You don't say enough in your post for me to be certain that this is your problem, but I can imagine ways in which, with your file naming scheme, name conflicts could occur, and this is the most likely possibility. What I can say for (almost) sure is that BB Pro is finding name conflicts; in such circumstances, it will not overwrite existing files. Try downloading to an empty folder to confirm this.


I can only image that the there is a problem related to the jpeg that is embedded in the raw file and that is somehow conflicting with the separate jpeg file but I don't know how to make that go away.This is not the problem; the embedded JPEG is part of the RAW file, and does not have a separate identity.


... not only is it showing me those error messages, but breezebrowser is not ridiculously slow when I tab from one image to the next. It used to be nearly instantaneous, now it takes about 1-1.5 seconds which is way too slow to go through thousands of photos.This is a separate problem, though it may be indirectly related if (as I guess you might) you store large numbers of image files in the same folder. I suggest that you start a separate thread for this issue in the BB Pro forum; if you do, please give details of the version of Windows you are using, and also of the processor and RAM in your machine, so that we can gauge its speed. Please also say if you have recently changed your OS.


I also noticed that in the folder of images, there is now an xmp file next to each image. I'm not sure if that was created by the new downloader pro or the new breeze browser pro. but, i have no idea what that is and wonder if that is assisting in the MAJOR slowdown in performance.
XMP sidecar files are, in accordance with the XMP specification, used to add XMP data, and specifically in this instance IPTC data, to proprietary RAW files. The originators of the the XMP standard (essentially, Adobe) decided, almost certainly correctly, that it would be wrong to embed the data in files in formats which were not publicly documented and which could change without notice. I doubt that the XMP files have anything at all to do with your problem.

Hope this helps.

David

[mukherjeeprem]

Hi David,
Thanks for trying to help me sort this out.
I get these error messages when I download ONE card to an empty folder so I don't understand how I'm getting repeated file names.

I use new folders for every job and don't have any folders with more than 1500 images (from a wedding). Nothing about my workflow has changed...the only difference is the updated versions of dlpro and bbpro.

What is creating the xmp files? Is dlpro doing that or bbpro?
Are you saying that this data no longer gets embedded in a jpeg file but rather an XMP sidecar? Is there a way to turn that off? I'd rather only have one file.

[DavidB]

I get these error messages when I download ONE card to an empty folder so I don't understand how I'm getting repeated file names.I don't understand this, either. DL Pro reconstructs its download list every time a new card is inserted, and, as far as I know, cannot give the error message if the target folder is empty. What is your target folder? Is the name constructed using tokens? Just to be sure, could you check that you are not accidentally running two instances of DL Pro at once; they would by default sit one on top of the other.


I use new folders for every job and don't have any folders with more than 1500 images (from a wedding). Nothing about my workflow has changed...the only difference is the updated versions of dlpro and bbpro.1500 images should not be a problem, but we need to pursue the 'slow BB Pro' issue in the BB Pro forum. What was your previous version of DL Pro?


What is creating the xmp files? Is dlpro doing that or bbpro? Are you saying that this data no longer gets embedded in a jpeg file but rather an XMP sidecar? Is there a way to turn that off? I'd rather only have one file.DL Pro creates the XMP files when it adds IPTC data to the RAW files; BB Pro would do the same thing if the data is added at that stage. The data is embedded in JPEG, TIFF and DNG files (this includes the JPEG part of a RAW+JPEG pair), so they don't need or have XMP sidecar files.

If you add IPTC/XMP data to a RAW file, this will be in the form of a sidecar XMP file, because that is what the data specification requires. As far as I know, if you turn off adding IPTC data in DL Pro, the sidecar file will not be created. But it will be created if you subsequently convert the RAW file in either BB Pro or Adobe Camera RAW (or, with the appropriate preferences set, in Lightroom), because those applications use the XMP files to record their conversion settings.

Sidecar files are, I agree, a pain. But applications like BB Pro handle them seamlessly, so, if you copy or move a RAW file in BB Pro, the XMP file stays with it. The inconvenience is the price we pay for not having our files accidentally corrupted by the inappropriate embedding of metadata, or for not having to deal with arbitrary systems (such as that used by Capture One) for recording RAW conversion settings.

Hope this clarifies things.

David

[mukherjeeprem]

Well, I was wrong. When I download ONE card, it doesn't do this. When I download multiple cards at the same time, it DOES do it.
However, I'm doing a comparison and there are no duplicate file names that I can see so I don't know why I'm getting this error.
There are no duplicate ORIGINAL file names and no duplicate RENAMED file names. The other thing is that all the files are downloading properly, or at least it seems that way. I'm getting a raw+jpeg for EVERY image as expected so I have no idea what's going on.

With the filename I'm using, it's pulling the serial number, then the image number from the camera, then the minute it was shot. I don't see how it's possible to have the same file name with that setup. If it was shot with the same camera, then the image number would be different. If it was shot with a different camera, then the serial number would be different.

The whole point of that setup was so that I wouldn't have duplicate names. Once everything is downloaded, I sort everything and rename in BB anyway.

I don't know what to do because I don't see a problem with the names, but yet it gives me that error.

[mukherjeeprem]

actually, it looks like i was right AND wrong.
SOME of my cards download fine by themselves.
others will give me the size different error even when it's the only card downloading into a brand new folder.

[mukherjeeprem]

wierd.

ok...new update.
it's fixed now.

the only difference in my settings between the old dlpro and the new dlpro was the checkbox for adding the XMP file so I turned that off and everything seemed to work fine.

then i turned it back on, and now it still works fine. it appears that whatever was messed up, was somehow related to that and now it's working.
i don't understand but...it's working so I'm not going to touch it.

another thing that's odd about it is when I run multiple instances of dlpro to download multiple cards at the same time, it's only bringing up the job code box on one instance of dlpro even though the checkbox is checked that it should prompt for job code each time.

[Chris Breeze]

You do need to take extra care in setting things up if you're intending to run more than one copy of DLPro at the same time particularly if they are going to download images to the same folder. If they are going to download images to the same folder you need to find a way to guarantee that the filenames are different (e.g. by including the camera serial number in the filename or using the camera name mapping to give a different name for each camera body).

When changing DLPro's settings the values are only saved in the Windows registry when the program exits. This can be confusing if you run several copies, make changes in one copy and then close each copy. The settings saved will be those of the last copy of DLPro that exited which may not be the same copy as the one in which the settings were changed.

The normal settings for DLPro are to check filename, date and time and file size before downloading a file. If a file of the same name but a different size is already in the download folder then you will get a warning and the file won't be downloaded as this would overwrite the existing file. When the option to add IPTC data is selected the file size check has to be disabled because data is added to the image as it is dowloaded and the file sizes of the original on the memory card and the downloaded file will be different. You can also manually select the option to ignore file sizes.

[mukherjeeprem]

Thanks Chris,
The file size check must be the culprit. However, I can't find a checkbox to turn that off. I must just be missing it.

[DavidB]

Thanks Chris,
The file size check must be the culprit. However, I can't find a checkbox to turn that off. I must just be missing it.
It's 3 (square) check boxes below the 'Image Source' area on the General Tab. For the reason Chris gave, it is greyed out if DL Pro is set to add IPTC data.

I wouldn't assume too readily that the 'Size different' message is the root cause of your problem; turning off safety checks unnecessarily makes you potentially vulnerable to loss of data. I would consider your file naming scheme as quite vulnerable to conflicts, so Chris's advice is quite important.

It is also worth reading the extensive advice in BB Pro Help about the way uniqueness tokens work, in case adding a token to your standard file name might fit with your work flow; however, the effects of having multiple simultaneous downloads also need to be considered in this case.

David

[mukherjeeprem]

Hi David,
I don't understand how my file naming scheme could be the problem.
If I used the camera serial number and the original in-camera image number as part of the file name, how is it possible to have a duplicate file name?

I also don't understand why having multiple simultaneous downloads to the same folder would be a problem. I've been doing it for years with no problems and as long as the file names are unique, there should be no issues.
It's worked for the 4+ years I've been using downloader pro until this last update. The only thing that seems to be different over my setup from previous versions is the IPTC addition which I'll be happy to leave out if that's what's causing me issues.

[Chris Breeze]

It should be relatively easy to work out what is causing the problem by looking at the file that has already been downloaded. The shooting data should tell you which camera it is from and whether it is an image downloaded by the copy of DLPro which is reporting the problem or a different copy. From there you should be able to work out whether there is a problem with the filenaming or other settings being used.

[DavidB]

I think it's also worth saying that the feature of DL Pro we have been discussing has not changed significantly, if at all, for some time, and that the installation of a new version is unlikely to be the root cause of the problem. What can happen, of course, is that, with the new installation, settings can revert to default values, and that could be a factor. But without knowing much more about your set-up (and camera), I can't say whether this is an issue in your case. The adding of metadata will also not be the cause, because, as Chris explained, that disables the size check.

By way of example, the four digit image numbering system used in Canon cameras can produce conflicts when the number rolls over. If the camera is (perhaps accidentally) set to use something other than continuous file numbering, that will make conflicts almost certain. For reasons of habit as much as practicality, I use a --- system that prevents conflicts in my case, but would need to be re-thought if, for example, I started to use two cameras of the same model. The context is always important, and even quite small changes in the way you work can sometimes catch you out. That is why error messages need to be investigated; to do anything else is like a pilot responding to a stall warning by switching it off.

Whatever the cause may be, I'm sure that the approach advised by Chris is the way to go.

David

[mukherjeeprem]

I turned off the writing of IPTC info and have not had a problem since then.
I'll report back if it comes back again.
Thanks.

[jazbo]

I also had "File Size error" problem. This only occured when IPTC data changed. When preferences checked "Ignore File size change" box was checked and grayed out. When preferences saved the problem went away. It appears "Ignore File change" had not been applied automatically when IPTC data added. All is OK now......