Canon DSLR live view & strobe

[AzSphinxx13]

We're currently using a Canon 40D, and can get the 580EX II flash to work in the photobooth live view mode. But we would rather use our strobe set up. Except when we hook up the strobe either hot shoe or PC attachment, it doesn't go off.

I saw another post saying this could just be a problem with the 40D's live view mode. Is there a way around this with the 40D?

Has anyone used any Canon DSLR's and been able to hook up an external strobe?

We are thinking of getting a different camera just for the photobooth, but don't want to get ourselves into the same situation. Possibly the Canon EOS Rebel XS Digital SLR Camera.


Thanks for any help on this

[AzSphinxx13]

I don't know if I can mark this solved or not, but we figured it out. lol We had to disable the silent mode under live view in the menu, and it worked great.

[Chris Breeze]

This is a known problem with Canon cameras and non-Canon strobes. With mid to high end models you can fix the problem by disabling silent shooting mode in live view. With low end models like the Rebel series you may have to trigger the strobe using a slave unit and the camera's built-in flash.

[VisibleForm]

We've hit the same snag (currently trialing DSLR Remote Pro for a booth we've just put together).

We wanted to use our existing Nikon cameras with NK Remote, but live view shutting off after an hour is a showstopper - because when restarted they only run for another 5-10 minutes before shutting off again, and we want to run booths at parties for 2-3 hours of intensive use.

So, reading through the advice (and these forums) we bought a Canon 1000D - only to find the 1000D won't fire via the hotshoe in live view mode ...aaaaargh! Using optical trigger is not a solution for us, as we don't want our flash units triggered by other people's cameras, plus there's the preflash to deal with (1000D onboard flash cannot be set to manual). We did a test run at a friend's party last weekend using optical trigger with Calumet Genesis units set to ignore 1st flash - it worked better than expected, but we still had a couple of failed flashes.

So, my question... given we want Canon DSLR with live view and non-Canon flash - is the 40D the lowest entry point in the Canon line for achieving this?

(We do love the software, by the way!)

Thanks, Rob

[carroll1]

Whoa, back the bus up.

Chris, why are you recommending the Canon Rebel XS if this is the case? Is that true?

Seems like not having an off-camera flash is a showstopper, no?


I tried using one last weekend and kept getting AF lock issues...put it in manual mode, but couldn't get a good depth of field....what should i do to tweak that?

[Chris Breeze]

You can increase the depth of field by using a smaller aperture e.g. f/8, f/11, f/16 or smaller. A wider angle lens will also give increased depth of field.

The Rebel XS works fine with the on camera flash and with Canon flashes and other E-TTL compatible flashes when live view is active. However, you may have problems triggering other types of flash via the hotshoe when live view is active. One option is to use the camera's built-in flash to trigger the main flash via a slave unit. The flash exposure compensation can be set to -2 to avoid illuminating the subject too much with the on camera flash.

[anastassis]

Chris, is Canon 50D a camera that will trigger an external strobe under the live view mode? i am aware that the silent shoot mode is available in the camera. Is there a cheaper model that supports an external strobe?

[AzSphinxx13]

Hi, I haven't had a chance to check back for a while. We mostly use our 40D's for other photography, so we wanted to go a different route and bought a canon rebel XS(what can I say we are canon fans).

Since Rebels don't have a pc sync we bought this on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0032CAGH0/ref=oss_product


So far its working, and we can sync via pc to a strobe from the rebel, however we ran into a wall with getting to to go off during live view.

I'll post if we find out how to fix it, or if anyone else knows can you post. Thank you!

[Chris Breeze]

With mid to high end models like the 40D, 50D, 7D, 5D Mark II etc. it should work with live view if you disable silent shooting in the live view settings on the camera.

Unfortunately low end models like the Rebel XS don't allow you to change the live view silent shooting mode and won't fire a non E-TTL flash when live view is active. One option is to use a slave unit and trigger the main strobe using the camera's built-in flash. A slave unit with PC socket like this should work:
http://www.amazon.com/Seagull-SYK-4-Optical-Trigger-Socket/dp/B0028DM1YA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1266566032&sr=1-2

[VisibleForm]

^^ but surely that adapter will trigger everything from the Canon preflash - which cannot be switched off in the Rebel XS/1000D?

What is needed is an optical trigger that will ignore Canon preflash.

Rob

[Chris Breeze]

I don't think it uses pre-flash if you set the camera to manual exposure mode.

[VisibleForm]

Ah, OK, thanks for that Chris - I'll dig the camera out and do some more testing.

If this is the case, we'll have a go at making a light-tight cover that slips over the front of the camera's flash and contains an optical trigger with PC/hotshoe ...this would remove the risk of having flash triggered by a guest's camera.

Rob

[VisibleForm]

OK, update... tested and doesn't work

With the 1000D/Rebel XS camera set to manual exposure, the onboard flash is still working in ETTL and produces a preflash. There's no option in the camera menus to switch the onboard flash itself to manual mode.

With a suitable Canon speedlite it seems that manual flash (no preflash) is possible, and can in fact be set from the camera's menu for some models ...but no such option for the onboard flash.

So, there's no easy solution if you want to use 1000D/XS with non-Canon flash-heads under liveview AND avoid guest cameras triggering the flash-heads at the wrong moment.

I can figure out some workarounds, but they all involve spending more money - and to be honest the simpler solution is use a 40D/50D which has PC sync out.

Just wish I'd known all this before we bought the 1000D and then spent £70 on a mains power supply for it.

Rob

[Chris Breeze]

I've checked the 1000D manual and it states that the flash mode cannot be changed which implies that E-TTL mode is always active. You can use an E-TTL flash triggered via the hotshoe with live view but not a non E-TTL flash (this requires a more expensive camera body like the 40D, 50D, 7D etc. which can disable silent shooting mode).
I think the only options are to use a Canon compatible flash, find a slave unit which ignores the E-TTL pre-flash or switch a more capable camera body. After all, the 1000D is Canon's most basic model. It doesn't have a PC flash connection and isn't designed to work with studio strobes.

[alexsiskahn]

just use the built in flash is the other option. we do and it works great. For goodness the people are only 5 feet a way!

[Chris Breeze]

This Sunpak digital slave unit with preflash cancellation might help:
http://www.amazon.com/Sunpak-Digital-Preflash-Cancellation-Socket/dp/B000SJR7ZY

[Chris Breeze]

I will try to summarise what's been covered in this thread so far. I don't have the necessary equipment to test all of this and so please correct me if I get anything wrong.

The problem: How to trigger an external flash or strobe using a Canon DSLR when live view is active.

Option 1: Use an E-TTL II compatible flash connected to the camera's hotshoe.
This should work for all Canon DSLRs.

Option 2: Use a flash which is not E-TTL II compatible or studio strobes connected using a hotshoe to PC cord adapter.
This should work for mid to high end camera models if the camera's live view silent shooting setting is disabled. This won't work for low end models because the live view silent shooting mode can't be changed.

Option 3: Use the camera's built-in flash to trigger the main flash or strobe via a slave unit.
This should work for mid to high end camera models if the camera's built-in flash is set to manual flash not E-TTL II. If the flash is set to E-TTL II you get a pre-flash which will trigger the main lighting prematurely.
The flash mode on low end camera models cannot be changed and is set to E-TTL II which means you will always get a pre-flash. However, this method should work if you use a slave unit which has pre-flash cancellation so that it ignores the pre-flash and only triggers off the main flash.

Mid to high end camera models: 40D, 50D, 7D, 5D Mark II, 1D Mark III, 1D Mark IV, 1Ds Mark III
Low end camera models: 450D/Rebel XSi, 500D/Rebel T1i, 550D/Rebel T2i, 1000D/Rebel XS

[alexsiskahn]

wein digital slave probably does not work

I haven't actually tested it with the xs preflash but it doesn't work with the a75 preflash, so I wouldn't waste my money buying another one.

[sspbooth]

wein digital slave probably does not work

I haven't actually tested it with the xs preflash but it doesn't work with the a75 preflash, so I wouldn't waste my money buying another one.

I use the Wein digital slave and it works well with my Xs. I built a cap around the onboard flash unit using aluminum foil. Unfortunately they aren't producing the slave units any longer. If you do get your hands on one, make sure that your strobe has a minimum sync voltage of 5 volts otherwise the wein slave wont work.

[Chris Breeze]

Has anyone tried the Interfit EXD200 flash head? This has a built-in slave unit with pre-flash cancellation and could be a cost-effective solution.

[Sharpie]

Has anyone tried a radio remote trigger to see if this will solve the problem?

[Chris Breeze]

I don't think it will help because the Rebel series cameras don't activate the standard hotshoe contacts when live view is active. The hack/workaround of popping up the built-in flash and putting something in the hotshoe (with the lug shaved off so it doesn't depress the switch in the hotshoe) should work though.

It might be cheaper and simpler to buy a used 40D off eBay as this has live view and allows you to configure the settings to disable live view exposure simulation and E-TTL flash.

[trinitron]

Hi Chris,
With the following
Using Remote Pro version 2.2
Camera xsi/450d
Strobe sl-150
hot shoe converter tf-326

I tried executing the new External Flash Mode instructions but for some reason it's still not working. It works when live view mode is off but not when it's on. Any ideas what is going wrong? I'm assumming it works for this low end camera because it stated "External flash mode allows you to use studio strobes with any Canon EOS camera " and how this method is recommended "Rebel series cameras" Thanks for your help.

[alexsiskahn]

The" external flash " function should be called something different.
A less confusing term would be live view exposure control. All it does is allow you to brighten or darken the live video feed.

If you want to use an external strobe with a rebel you either need to hack the hot shoe adapter you are using by removing almost the entire right side OR take a razor blade and cut off the little button inside the camera's hot shoe.

the latter is more effective and reliable.

[trinitron]

Thanks for the clarification alexsiskahn.

[Chris Breeze]

The" external flash " function should be called something different.
A less confusing term would be live view exposure control. All it does is allow you to brighten or darken the live video feed.

If you want to use an external strobe with a rebel you either need to hack the hot shoe adapter you are using by removing almost the entire right side OR take a razor blade and cut off the little button inside the camera's hot shoe.

the latter is more effective and reliable.

No, I think it is correctly named because it allows you to use external flash with Rebel series cameras. One element is to ensure the external flash/studio strobe is triggered and the other is to adjust the live view exposure.

[Chris Breeze]

Hi Chris,
With the following
Using Remote Pro version 2.2
Camera xsi/450d
Strobe sl-150
hot shoe converter tf-326

I tried executing the new External Flash Mode instructions but for some reason it's still not working. It works when live view mode is off but not when it's on. Any ideas what is going wrong? I'm assumming it works for this low end camera because it stated "External flash mode allows you to use studio strobes with any Canon EOS camera " and how this method is recommended "Rebel series cameras" Thanks for your help.

I've tested it with a variety of Rebel series cameras and it should work with all of them (450D/Rebel XSi, 500D/Rebel T1i, 550D/Rebel T2i and 1000D/Rebel XS). Please double check that external flash mode is actually selected (the option should be checked when you display the photo booth settings dialog) and that the hotshoe to PC sync adaptor and PC sync cord are firmly connected. PC connectors can be quite loose and don't always make good contact.

[MarmiK]

Here's a video using a Canon XS, SL-150 strobe, adapted hot shoe so it doesn't depress the pin, optical sensors removed. The camer's flash will then trigger the strobe. I'm thinking of trying this - seems like an easy solution. Does it work?
http://www.youtube.com/user/rollandelliott#p/u/20/R035FYjmOmA
Is there anything not mentioned in the video? Any other steps that need to be taken? What about pre-flashes - would they be an issue?

[alexsiskahn]

that video is fine.
But even easier is to just cut off the stupid little button takes 10 seconds.

[Chris Breeze]

You don't need to modify the hotshoe adaptor or popup the camera's built in flash if you use the new external flash mode in DSLR Remote Pro for Windows v2.2.

[azpaul]

I know this is an old thread and the symptoms seem to fit precisely. I am using a Rebel T1i with a wireless hot shoe with the live view. I am getting intermittent flashes. The program fires the flash and I see the RF light go on on the receiver every time but no flash so I am pretty sure that the camera is firing the flash on each photo. I am using a Cowboy Studio 180 Watt Strobe. While testing the strobe it self, it does not seem to recharge the capacitor with in the .5-3 seconds advertised. I have timed flashes up to 15 to 20 seconds in between while others are 1-3 seconds.

The strobe was under $100 so I am wondering if it is just a bad strobe/cheap electronics or this series in general. I am not up to speed with photography and all the ins and outs. I know just enough to operate my equipment to make my jobs work. So is it common to experience this with lower end strobes?

I will be ordering an AlienBees B400 tomorrow. I read a lot of great reviews and it should still work with my wireless hot shoe and this week is my maiden voyage for my newly constructed photo booth.

[Chris Breeze]

The most likely causes of problems are:
1) The flash not firing when the camera takes a picture e.g. because the trigger is unreliable or the flash hasn't had time to recharge between photos. If it is a problem with the flash recharging you would expect the first photo to always have flash and the remaining photos may not have flash. If it is a trigger problem any photo in the sequence may not have flash.
2) The wireless trigger is too slow and the flash isn't synching properly with the camera. If this is the case the flash will go off but the photos will be dark or will have a dark band across the top or bottom of the photo. Please see FAQ 12 on this page for information on how to reduce the shutter speed on the camera to give the flash more time to sync when using external flash mode:
http://www.breezesys.com/articles/photobooth8.htm

[azpaul]

Hi Chris,

After further troubleshooting, even testing the flash unit with the test button on the back, it was faulting on recharging in enough time. There is a little LED on the receiver and that would light each time it triggered. So I do not think it is a trigger issue on this problem. I ordered an AlienBees and will let you know how that works.

Thanks for the additional information, the more knowledge about issues the better prepared we are to know how to resolve them quickly and efficiently.